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Friday, October 28, 2016

Steppe boys, farmer girls

I updated my table of Steppe_EMBA mitochondrial (mtDNA) haplogroups with data from Wilde 2014, Broushaki et al. 2016, Sokolov et al. 2016, Jones et al. 2015, and extra data from Lazaridis et al. 2016. The accompanying map is from Wilde 2014 and shows sampling locations of many of the individuals in the spreadsheet.

Last time I looked at this stuff when attempting to find a link between Steppe_EMBA and prehistoric Iran, I couldn't spot anything meaningful (see here). At least now I can see a few shared haplogroups. Some thoughts:

- Despite the small sample set from Neolithic Bulgaria and western Ukraine, two out of the four haplogroups are shared with Steppe_EMBA, including the fairly specific H2a2

- Steppe_EMBA potentially shares very deep ancestry with Iran_Neolithic, via basal clades such as T2c and possibly X2; these markers could have arrived on the steppe in any number of ways, and indeed may have been sitting there since the Mesolithic

- But Iran_Chalcolithic is still a horrible match with Steppe_EMBA, and Maikop no better

Needless to say, I'm looking forward to those new Neolithic Balkan samples from the upcoming Mathieson et al. paper (see here). I'm pretty sure now that at least some Steppe_EMBA groups will show admixture from Neolithic or Chalcolithic populations from the eastern Balkans.

See also...

Mixed marriages on the early Eneolithic steppe

Modeling Steppe_EMBA

Male-dominated conquest of Europe by Bronze Age steppe pastoralists

The story of mtDNA haplogroup U7


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Rob said...

@ KarlK

Ok. So we should probably rephrase what we're discussing to 'the Northwest Fringe of Europe'.
In addition, some more aDNA from Bronze Age Western Europe would be helpful, in addition to resolving the lingering dating issues, so we can more concretely establish the pace of these hypothesized changes.
Indeed, the rapid growth of major lineages of L11 could be the result of demographic optima associated with the re-establishment of agricultural pre-eminence during the LBA - Iron Age chiefdoms, black plague or even industrial Revolution.

Gioiello said...

@ vespertilio

I thank you for your links. Of course I did know Alinei and the other colleagues of his, who are above all Italians and wrote mainly in Italian. I'd say that Alinei is a pancontinuist (I am a continuist too, but con juicio).
I don't believe in a continuity of the Neolatin dialects, of the German presence in the South (where other peoples lived from Rhaetians to Vindelici etc.), of Slavs in the Balkans and South Eastern Europe, of Altaic or of Uralic peoples.
Alinei is a newby in genetics, what I think not being.
One thing each time. First my theory of an "Italian Refugium" of R1b1 and subclades (beyond I, J, and some G etc,), after I'll write again also the linguistics.

capra internetensis said...

The average (~neutral) mutation rate of mtDNA is around 1 SNP in 2500 years. For Y DNA more like 1 SNP in 100 years.

So what I'm wondering is if maternal lineages underwent a rapid proliferation, how would you even be able to determine the time scale?

batman said...


Please don't distract the focus - or start cherry-picking facts to prove your ideas.

The linguists that have worked on the Paleolithic Continuation Theory counts a lot more than one Italian. Though, there's no doubt that Dr. Alinei was the pioneer that laid it all out in the first place, during his period as a senior professor at Utrecht during the 1990-ies.

Over the later years we've had a "Mother Toungue Project" ran under the European Research Council, headed by Dr. Mark Pagel.

Pagel and collegues have concluded along the same lines as Alinei, tracking the roots of the I-E back "Over 10.000 years ago".

Led by the existing evidence they end up in the Carpathian region, where the first, known signs/letters known from phonetic alphabets have been found. According to Pagel (et al) this culture spoke "a unique language, precursor to Latin and Sanskrit.”

The major question remaining is to identify where this culture came from.

As you already know this origin had to be of the arctic/semi-arctic biosphere. Thus the idea of a "Trans-Carpatian refugia" have arosed, although we still don't have any archaeological discoveries to substantiate this idea.

Which means we're still back to the discussion if WHERE an arctic refugia have been proven to exist - to produce the genetic and cultural continuity that obviously managed to survive the mass-extinctions of the Younger Dryas Deep Freeze.

As noted - so far we have only one area discovered where a continous existence throughout the YD actually did happen - from 12.900 to 11.900 yrs BP - at the Strait of Oresund. Today it is actually proven - by a series of C-14-dates - that A refugia did survive at the shores between the N Atlantic and the W Baltic DURING the YD.

Which makes it possible to verify and explain a paleolithic origin of both the I-E and Uralian languages, as well as the genetic make-up of the I-E parts of Eurasia.

It's obviously time for the authoritative geneticians on both side of the Atlantic to get some serious updates from their consultants within archaeology and linguistics...

Gioiello said...

@ vespertilio

I fought for Europe (not only for Italy) against who wanted to make us think that "Ex Oriente lux", thus an origin in Northern or in Eastern Europe is the same good to me.

"The linguists that have worked on the Paleolithic Continuation Theory counts a lot more than one Italian".

Alinei and the most part of the other theorists of PCT are Italian they too.

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